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	<title>Comments on: I think IE7 is going to break language negotiation on many servers</title>
	<atom:link href="http://rishida.net/blog/?feed=rss2&#038;p=68" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://rishida.net/blog/?p=68</link>
	<description>News of changes to my main site, and W3C related posts.</description>
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		<title>By: Tutoriais CSS, Web Standards, Acessibilidade, Tableless</title>
		<link>http://rishida.net/blog/?p=68&#038;cpage=1#comment-3868</link>
		<dc:creator>Tutoriais CSS, Web Standards, Acessibilidade, Tableless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Nov 2006 10:52:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/?p=68#comment-3868</guid>
		<description>[...] Sob este título Richard Ishida, líder das Atividades de Internacionalização do W3C, publicou em seu Blog uma interessante matéria que aqui vai traduzida para conhecimento e comentários dos meus leitores. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sob este título Richard Ishida, líder das Atividades de Internacionalização do W3C, publicou em seu Blog uma interessante matéria que aqui vai traduzida para conhecimento e comentários dos meus leitores. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Avi Alkalay</title>
		<link>http://rishida.net/blog/?p=68&#038;cpage=1#comment-3840</link>
		<dc:creator>Avi Alkalay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Nov 2006 01:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/?p=68#comment-3840</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not an IE user, not even Windows user, but I think this is the way to go.

Sending a full locale string (instead of only language) may tell a web application much more about the user, for example about its currency, its way to read date and time, etc. So a es_US locale may return a spanish page with dollars instead of euros or pesos.

Yes, things will break for some time, but Apache will fix/improve the way it manages languages very easily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not an IE user, not even Windows user, but I think this is the way to go.</p>
<p>Sending a full locale string (instead of only language) may tell a web application much more about the user, for example about its currency, its way to read date and time, etc. So a es_US locale may return a spanish page with dollars instead of euros or pesos.</p>
<p>Yes, things will break for some time, but Apache will fix/improve the way it manages languages very easily.</p>
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		<title>By: David Clarke</title>
		<link>http://rishida.net/blog/?p=68&#038;cpage=1#comment-3814</link>
		<dc:creator>David Clarke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 13:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/?p=68#comment-3814</guid>
		<description>After some discussion last night, it appears that Microsoft&#039;s IIS web server may also show the problems created by this change from Microsoft.

The real problem is as a result of the definition of HTTP 1.1, not that of any web server manufacturer.

The HTTP RFC 2616 Section 15.1.4 also indicates that the practice of declaring precise accept-language may introduce security issues too.
http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec15.html#sec15.1.4

I strongly support Richard&#039;s suggestion that putting just the language, with a lower q score, as well as the language and region would solve the issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After some discussion last night, it appears that Microsoft&#8217;s IIS web server may also show the problems created by this change from Microsoft.</p>
<p>The real problem is as a result of the definition of HTTP 1.1, not that of any web server manufacturer.</p>
<p>The HTTP RFC 2616 Section 15.1.4 also indicates that the practice of declaring precise accept-language may introduce security issues too.<br />
<a href="http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec15.html#sec15.1.4" rel="nofollow">http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec15.html#sec15.1.4</a></p>
<p>I strongly support Richard&#8217;s suggestion that putting just the language, with a lower q score, as well as the language and region would solve the issues.</p>
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		<title>By: site admin</title>
		<link>http://rishida.net/blog/?p=68&#038;cpage=1#comment-3800</link>
		<dc:creator>site admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/?p=68#comment-3800</guid>
		<description>Dave, actually it doesn&#039;t, unfortunately.  That&#039;s why I wrote the blog post.  If you have, say, filename.en.html and filename.fr.html on your Apache 1.3 server and set up a fallback default of filename.html (in, say, French), as recommended by the Apache documentation, you will get the French document back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, actually it doesn&#8217;t, unfortunately.  That&#8217;s why I wrote the blog post.  If you have, say, filename.en.html and filename.fr.html on your Apache 1.3 server and set up a fallback default of filename.html (in, say, French), as recommended by the Apache documentation, you will get the French document back.</p>
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		<title>By: fantasai</title>
		<link>http://rishida.net/blog/?p=68&#038;cpage=1#comment-3797</link>
		<dc:creator>fantasai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 04:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/?p=68#comment-3797</guid>
		<description>fr-US means I speak the American variant of French. Perhaps there is such a thing, perhaps there isn&#039;t, but at any rate I want the French French version of the page, not the American French version. That I happen to be in the US is irrelevant to what language I prefer to read in.

Let&#039;s use perhaps a clearer example. Suppose I am American. I emigrate to New Zealand. US English remaines my first language and my preferred dialect. But I don&#039;t want to read the New Zealand English version of a web page if there&#039;s an American English version. My language preference therefore should be en-US, not en-NZ.

If I&#039;m in New Zealand, it would be *very nice* if websites got a geographic fix for New Zealand, since network connections are closer from California and Japan than from New York or London. But the language preference isn&#039;t the place to get that fix.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fr-US means I speak the American variant of French. Perhaps there is such a thing, perhaps there isn&#8217;t, but at any rate I want the French French version of the page, not the American French version. That I happen to be in the US is irrelevant to what language I prefer to read in.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s use perhaps a clearer example. Suppose I am American. I emigrate to New Zealand. US English remaines my first language and my preferred dialect. But I don&#8217;t want to read the New Zealand English version of a web page if there&#8217;s an American English version. My language preference therefore should be en-US, not en-NZ.</p>
<p>If I&#8217;m in New Zealand, it would be *very nice* if websites got a geographic fix for New Zealand, since network connections are closer from California and Japan than from New York or London. But the language preference isn&#8217;t the place to get that fix.</p>
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		<title>By: Dale</title>
		<link>http://rishida.net/blog/?p=68&#038;cpage=1#comment-3763</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/?p=68#comment-3763</guid>
		<description>its the same as the IE6 default for English: en-US.

While en-US,en is clearly a better client setting,  I suspect that in practice, an en-US request will result in en rourses being served up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>its the same as the IE6 default for English: en-US.</p>
<p>While en-US,en is clearly a better client setting,  I suspect that in practice, an en-US request will result in en rourses being served up.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Lamb</title>
		<link>http://rishida.net/blog/?p=68&#038;cpage=1#comment-3725</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Lamb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Oct 2006 07:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/?p=68#comment-3725</guid>
		<description>So, first of all Apache&#039;s behaviour here is correct, is described in full in the standard as I&#039;ve explained on Michael Kaplan&#039;s blog when he took a similar line to Denis.

Internet Explorer should help the user to set up a meaningful list (like say, a preference for Australian English, followed by British English, then any other English variant) and it doesn&#039;t seem to do a decent job of that despite a /clear warning/ in the HTTP standard that this is needed.

Secondly the geographical location stuff described above is mistaken. A Frenchman in the US almost certainly wants either fr-FR (French) or en-US (American English) or perhaps both in that order, and if he pops over into Canada he doesn&#039;t suddenly want fr-CA (Canadian French). All Accept-Language does is tell you as precisely as possible what language the user prefers to read documents in. It should NOT be used to try to determine where the user is currently, or where they live.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, first of all Apache&#8217;s behaviour here is correct, is described in full in the standard as I&#8217;ve explained on Michael Kaplan&#8217;s blog when he took a similar line to Denis.</p>
<p>Internet Explorer should help the user to set up a meaningful list (like say, a preference for Australian English, followed by British English, then any other English variant) and it doesn&#8217;t seem to do a decent job of that despite a /clear warning/ in the HTTP standard that this is needed.</p>
<p>Secondly the geographical location stuff described above is mistaken. A Frenchman in the US almost certainly wants either fr-FR (French) or en-US (American English) or perhaps both in that order, and if he pops over into Canada he doesn&#8217;t suddenly want fr-CA (Canadian French). All Accept-Language does is tell you as precisely as possible what language the user prefers to read documents in. It should NOT be used to try to determine where the user is currently, or where they live.</p>
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		<title>By: site admin</title>
		<link>http://rishida.net/blog/?p=68&#038;cpage=1#comment-3718</link>
		<dc:creator>site admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/?p=68#comment-3718</guid>
		<description>Hi fantasai.  fr-US is perfectly fine according to RFC 4646.  Note also that you can always change your settings if you need to - and you&#039;re not restricted to a set list.  And in fact, when you install IE7 it asks you to set this up - which is really quite good.

Trouble is, by my experience, people don&#039;t really have a good idea how to do this (as you showed ;-) ) - even if they are aware that it is even possible or necessary after installation.  That&#039;s why I&#039;m concerned about the missing fr in the default setup.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi fantasai.  fr-US is perfectly fine according to RFC 4646.  Note also that you can always change your settings if you need to &#8211; and you&#8217;re not restricted to a set list.  And in fact, when you install IE7 it asks you to set this up &#8211; which is really quite good.</p>
<p>Trouble is, by my experience, people don&#8217;t really have a good idea how to do this (as you showed <img src='http://rishida.net/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  ) &#8211; even if they are aware that it is even possible or necessary after installation.  That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m concerned about the missing fr in the default setup.</p>
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		<title>By: fantasai</title>
		<link>http://rishida.net/blog/?p=68&#038;cpage=1#comment-3716</link>
		<dc:creator>fantasai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 13:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/?p=68#comment-3716</guid>
		<description>If the idea is to get a geographical fix, then what if I&#039;m a Frenchman who emigrated to the US ten years ago? I write fr-US? That&#039;s not rfc-complient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the idea is to get a geographical fix, then what if I&#8217;m a Frenchman who emigrated to the US ten years ago? I write fr-US? That&#8217;s not rfc-complient.</p>
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		<title>By: site admin</title>
		<link>http://rishida.net/blog/?p=68&#038;cpage=1#comment-3713</link>
		<dc:creator>site admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2006 07:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://people.w3.org/rishida/blog/?p=68#comment-3713</guid>
		<description>Karl, if I understood correctly, I think the idea is that it would be easier to get a fix on the geographical location of the browser user than before.  This can be useful, for example, for automatically displaying a weather report in part of a page, or expressing amounts in the right currency, or routing to the right country-specific page.  The Accept-Language information becomes a locale tag rather than just a language tag.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karl, if I understood correctly, I think the idea is that it would be easier to get a fix on the geographical location of the browser user than before.  This can be useful, for example, for automatically displaying a weather report in part of a page, or expressing amounts in the right currency, or routing to the right country-specific page.  The Accept-Language information becomes a locale tag rather than just a language tag.</p>
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